[Beowulf] Deskside clusters

Tue Aug 24 17:58:49 UTC 2021

Hello Jim,
Use IPMI to throttle the fans.
With a personal 10K budget you can get an overkill dell emc...and need the
fans. Scale back to your specs to what you need, 64 gb ram maybe. I can
tell you how to access the ipmi controller, if you need to know.
I worry this may cause a vulnerability, like opening a door, but my r630 is
very nice. Trucks passing by make more noise. And a 300 watt PSU is
sufficient.
This machine I use for RTC, video coursework, amateur astronomy, authoring,
coding, and graphic design. Moving an entire adventure map, for an example
in design consisting of a hundred or so individual tiny, colored shapes as
a unit out of the page margin is not realistic. But I can do it.
Watching htop as my 10-core bleeds for a couple seconds, as the map creeps,
is also fun.
My specs are actually low, power consumption is low. The r630 is EOL sadly.
Jonathan Engwall

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 10:04 AM Lux, Jim (US 7140) via Beowulf <
beowulf at beowulf.org> wrote:

> I've been looking at "small scale" clusters for a long time (2000?)  and
> talked a lot with the folks from Orion, as well as on this list.
> They fit in a "hard to market to" niche.
>
> My own workflow tends to have use cases that are a big "off-nominal" - one
> is the rapid iteration of a computational model while experimenting - That
> is, I have a python code that generates input to Numerical Electromagnetics
> Code (NEC), I run the model over a range of parameters, then look at the
> output to see if I'm getting what what I want. If not, I change the code
> (which essentially changes the antenna design), rerun the models, and see
> if it worked.  I'd love an iteration time of "a minute or two" for the
> computation, maybe a minute or two to plot the outputs (fiddling with the
> plot ranges, etc.).  For reference, for a radio astronomy array on the far
> side of the Moon, I was running 144 cases, each at 380 frequencies: to run
> 1 case takes 30 seconds, so farming it out to 12 processors gave me a 6
> minute run time, which is in the right range. Another model of interaction
> of antnenas on a spacecraft runs about 15 seconds/case; and a third is
> about 120 seconds/case.
>
> To get "interactive development", then, I want the "cycle time" to be 10
> minutes - 30 minutes of thinking about how to change the design and
> altering the code to generate the new design, make a couple test runs to
> find the equivalent of "syntax errors", and then turn it loose - get a cup
> of coffee, answer a few emails, come back and see the results.  I could
> iterate maybe a half dozen shots a day, which is pretty productive.
> (Compared to straight up sequential - 144 runs at 30 seconds is more than
> an hour - and that triggers a different working cadence that devolves to
> sort of one shot a day) - The "10 minute" turnaround is also compatible
> with my job, which, unfortunately, has things other than computing -
> meetings, budgets, schedules.  At 10 minute runs, I can carve out a few
> hours and get into that "flow state" on the technical problem, before being
> disrupted by "a person from Porlock."
>
> So this is, I think, a classic example of  "I want local control" - sure,
> you might have access to a 1000 or more node cluster, but you're going to
> have to figure out how to use its batch management system (SLURM and PBS
> are two I've used) - and that's a bit different than "self managed 100%
> access". Or, AWS kinds of solutions for EP problems.   There's something
> very satisfying about getting an idea and not having to "ok, now I have to
> log in to the remote cluster with TFA, set up the tunnel, move my data, get
> the job spun up, get the data back" - especially for iterative
> development.  I did do that using JPLs and TACCs clusters, and "moving
> data" proved to be a barrier - the other thing was the "iterative code
> development" in between runs - Most institutional clusters discourage
> interactive development on the cluster (even if you're only sucking up one
> core).   If the tools were a bit more "transparent" and there were "shared
> disk" capabilities, this might be more attractive, and while everyone is
> exceedingly helpful, there are still barriers to making it "run it on my
> desktop"
>
> Another use case that I wind up designing for is the "HPC in places
> without good communications and limited infrastructure" -  The notional use
> case might be an archaeological expedition wanting to use HPC to process
> ground penetrating radar data or something like that.   (or, given that I
> work at JPL, you have a need for HPC on the surface of Mars) - So sending
> your data to a remote cluster isn't really an option.  And here, the
> "speedup" you need might well be a factor of 10-20 over a single computer,
> something doable in a "portable" configuration (check it as luggage, for
> instance). Just as for my antenna modeling problems, turning an "overnight"
> computation into a "10-20 minute"  computation would change the workflow
> dramatically.
>
>
> Another market is "learn how to cluster" - for which the RPi clusters work
> (or "packs" of Beagleboards) - they're fun, and in a classroom environment,
> I think they are an excellent cost effective solution to learning all the
> facets of "bringing up a cluster from scratch", but I'm not convinced they
> provide a good "MIPS/Watt" or "MIPS/liter" metric - in terms of
> convenience.  That is, rather than a cluster of 10 RPis, you might be
> better off just buying a faster desktop machine.
>
> Let's talk design desirements/constraints
>
> I've had a chance to use some "clusters in a box" over the last decades,
> and I'd suggest that while power is one constraint, another is noise.  Just
> the other day, I was in a lab and someone commented that "those computers
> are amazingly fast, but you really need to put them in another room". Yes,
> all those 1U and 2U rack mounted boxes with tiny fans screaming is just not
> "office compatible"   And that kind of brings up another interesting
> constraint for "deskside" computing - heat.  Sure you can plug in 1500W of
> computers (or even 3000W if you have two circuits), but can you live in
> your office with a 1500W space heater?   Interestingly, for *my* workflow,
> that's probably ok - *my* computation has a 10-30% duty cycle - think for
> 30 minutes, compute for 5-10.  But still, your office mate will appreciate
> if you keep the sound level down to 50dBA.
>
> GPUs - some codes can use them, some can't.  They tend, though, to be
> noisy (all that air flow for cooling). I don't know that GPU manufacturers
> spend a lot of time on this.  Sure, I've seen charts and specs that claim
> <50 dBA. But I think they're gaming the measurement, counting on the user
> to be a gamer wearing headphones or with a big sound system.  I will say,
> for instance, that the PS/4 positively roars when spun up unless you’ve got
> external forced ventilation to keep the inlet air temp low.
>
> Looking at GSA guidelines for office space - if it's "deskside" it's got
> to fit in the 50-80 square foot cubicle or your shared part of a 120 square
> foot office.
>
> Then one needs to figure out the "refresh cycle time" for buying hardware
> - This has been a topic on this list forever - you have 2 years of
> computation to do: do you buy N nodes today at speed X, or do you wait a
> year, buy N/2 nodes at speed 4X, and finish your computation at the same
> time.
>
> Fancy desktop PCs with monitors, etc. come in at under $5k, including
> burdens and installation, but not including monthly service charges (in an
> institutional environment).  If you look at "purchase limits" there's some
> thresholds (usually around $10k, then increasing in factors of 10 or 100
> steps) for approvals.  So a $100k deskside box is going to be a tough sell.
>
>
>
> On 8/24/21, 6:07 AM, "Beowulf on behalf of Douglas Eadline" <
> beowulf-bounces at beowulf.org on behalf of deadline at eadline.org> wrote:
>
>     Jonathan
>
>     It is a real cluster, available in 4 and 8 node versions.
>     The design if for non-data center use. That is, local
>     office, lab, home where power, cooling, and noise
>     are important. More info here:
>
>
> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.limulus-computing.com__;!!PvBDto6Hs4WbVuu7!f3kkkCuq3GKO288fxeGGHi3i-bsSY5P83PKu_svOVUISu7dkNygQtSvIpxHkE0XDpKU4fOA$
>
> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.limulus-computing.com/Limulus-Manual__;!!PvBDto6Hs4WbVuu7!f3kkkCuq3GKO288fxeGGHi3i-bsSY5P83PKu_svOVUISu7dkNygQtSvIpxHkE0XD7eWwVuM$
>
>     --
>     Doug
>
>
>
>     > Hi Doug,
>     >
>     > Not to derail the discussion, but a quick question you say desk side
>     > cluster is it a single machine that will run a vm cluster?
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     > Jonathan
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: Beowulf <beowulf-bounces at beowulf.org> On Behalf Of Douglas
> Eadline
>     > Sent: 23 August 2021 23:12
>     > To: John Hearns <hearnsj at gmail.com>
>     > Cc: Beowulf Mailing List <beowulf at beowulf.org>
>     > Subject: Re: [Beowulf] List archives
>     >
>     > John,
>     >
>     > I think that was on twitter.
>     >
>     > In any case, I'm working with these processors right now.
>     >
>     > On the new Ryzens, the power usage is actually quite tunable.
>     > There are three settings.
>     >
>     > 1) Package Power Tracking: The PPT threshold is the allowed socket
> power
>     > consumption permitted across the voltage rails supplying the socket.
>     >
>     > 2) Thermal Design Current: The maximum current (TDC) (amps) that can
> be
>     > delivered by a specific motherboard's voltage regulator
> configuration in
>     > thermally-constrained scenarios.
>     >
>     > 3) Electrical Design Current: The maximum current (EDC) (amps) that
> can be
>     > delivered by a specific motherboard's voltage regulator
> configuration in a
>     > peak ("spike") condition for a short period of time.
>     >
>     > My goal is to tweak the 105W TDP R7-5800X so it draws power like the
>     > 65W-TDP R5-5600X
>     >
>     > This is desk-side cluster low power stuff.
>     > I am using extension cable-plug for Limulus blades that have an
> in-line
>     > current meter (normally used for solar panels).
>     > Now I can load them up and watch exactly how much current is being
> pulled
>     > across the 12V rails.
>     >
>     > If you need more info, let me know
>     >
>     > --
>     > Doug
>     >
>     >> The Beowulf list archives seem to end in July 2021.
>     >> I was looking for Doug Eadline's post on limiting AMD power and the
>     >> results on performance.
>     >>
>     >> John H
>     >> _______________________________________________
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>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Doug
>     >
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>     --
>     Doug
>
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