[Beowulf] [External] RIP CentOS 8 [EXT]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

The problem with forking CentOS (or even just seeking to continue building it)
is that you will have all the same issues you have and no-one behind you to 
help fix them. 
I work (more or less) as a sysadmin - have done for years - and have been driven to distraction by Red Hat/CentOS at work,
devs wanting up to date software - and Debian throughout my personal life that 
"just works". [I've been a Debian developer for a long time.] 

I feel the collective pain.

The current Debian project leader has reached out to offer help in some sense.
https://jonathancarter.org/2020/12/10/centos-stream-or-debian/ - I'm willing
to help anyone where I can with issues or knowing where to point to to find
things or even just to be supportive.

This is a low traffic list that I've benefitted from hugely over the years:
if I can help somebody as I pass along ... This is a personal offer and not
to be construed as anything else: not committing the Debian Project as a whole
to anything (and also comes out of my copious free time as I'm still employed).

All the very best to all on the list, as ever,

Andy Cater

[amacater at debian.org]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 01:05:25PM +0000, Jonathan Aquilina via Beowulf wrote:
> To be fair Michael,
> 
> A fork is something im thinking about doing in all fairness. Hoping to start soon on it. Need to at this point figure out how to clone the repositories and start my own  testing etc.
> 
> Anyone know what the bare minimum you need in terms of packages installed to get going with a core OS and then can slowly build on top of?
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beowulf <beowulf-bounces at beowulf.org> On Behalf Of Michael Di Domenico
> Sent: 10 December 2020 14:00
> Cc: beowulf at beowulf.org
> Subject: Re: [Beowulf] [External] RIP CentOS 8 [EXT]
> 
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:45 PM Lance Wilson via Beowulf <beowulf at beowulf.org> wrote:
> >
> > Rolling is not ideal when you have to compile software against the installed libraries or kernels. If you have or are running Arch Linux you will know what I'm talking about. There are regular niggles with things, especially with compiling your own software that needs recompiles pretty regularly. It is very strange they have gone from stable controlled releases to basically the complete opposite.
> 
> <mild sarcasm> welcome to devops and the world of continuous integration :)  no point in actually testing anything when you have 2wk release cycles </mild sarcasm>
> 
> > I'm actually grateful though to have such a strong reason to move on, as we have had quite a number of issues with Redhat support where bugs can't/won't be patched. Also if we move to Ubuntu or Debian we will be much closer to the development environments for most of our researchers.
> 
> I feel your pain.  unfortunately my organization is not able to switch off redhat to something else, but we've seen an increasing number of bugs (security and others) where redhat just won't provide a fix.  and i'm not talking about mild things, things with actual CVE's
> 
> This whole centos debacle definitely reeks of IBM to some extent, where there's no such thing as a free lunch.  but it would have made a lot less people angry if they'd just let centos 8 run its course to
> 2029 and come out with a new product called streams.  then everyone can have more than 12mos to change they're entire organization around or not
> 
> i have no doubt there will be centos clones come to the market, it'll be interesting to see if they get more adoption then devuan has so far or whether they'll remain niche.  redhat certainly shook the market with systemd and now this, i wonder if this is enough to start pushing people away from redhat products or whether we'll start to see more adoption of bsd in the future
> 
> redhat doesn't own linux, i wonder if people are starting to get fed up with them thinking they do _______________________________________________
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