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<p>That's exactly what I suspected. I guess 13 years is like an
eternity in the modern "Speed of the Internet" world we live in,
but may not have been such a slow evolution time of the
pre-Internet days. <br>
</p>
<p>Prentice<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/19/20 2:53 PM, Renfro, Michael
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Minor point of pedagogy from my place in
the "learned FORTRAN 77 in 1990" crowd: your instructor's
options would have been:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">standard
FORTRAN 77<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">vendor-specific
dialect of FORTRAN (VAX or otherwise)<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">maybe a
pre-release of FORTRAN 90? Wasn't released and standardized
until 1991-92.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Never mind the availability of texts for
same.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Beowulf
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:beowulf-bounces@beowulf.org"><beowulf-bounces@beowulf.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, October 19, 2020 at 12:06 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:beowulf@beowulf.org">beowulf@beowulf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:beowulf@beowulf.org"><beowulf@beowulf.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Beowulf] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re:
[EXTERNAL] Re: Re: Spark, Julia, OpenMPI etc. - all in one
place</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 10/19/20 10:28 AM, Douglas Eadline wrote:<br>
> --snip--<br>
><br>
>> Unfortunately the presumption seems to be that the
old is deficient<br>
>> because it is old, and "my generation” didn't
invent it (which is<br>
>> clearly perverse; I see no rush to replace English,
French, … which are<br>
>> all older than any of our programming languages,
and which adapt, as do<br>
>> our programming languages).<br>
>><br>
> I think this has a lot to do with the Fortran
situation. In these "modern"<br>
> times, software seems to have gone from "releases" to a
"sliding<br>
> constant release" cycle and anything not released in
the past few<br>
> months is "old."<br>
><br>
> How many people here will wait a 2-6 months before
installing<br>
> a "new version" of some package in production to make
sure there<br>
> are no major issues. And of course keep older version
options<br>
> with software modules. Perhaps because I've been at
this a while,<br>
> I have a let it "mellow a bit" approach to shinny new
software.<br>
><br>
> I find it odd that Fortran gets placed in the "old
software box"<br>
> because it works while new languages with their
constant feature<br>
> churn and versions break dependency trees all over the
place,<br>
> and somehow that is good thing. Now get off my lawn.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Doug<br>
><br>
Now we're starting to veer of course a little here, but what
the hell...<br>
<br>
I think that one of the problems with Fortran is a complete<br>
misunderstanding of it's purpose. People are always shocked
when I tell<br>
them the scientists I support are "still" using Fortran.
Many people<br>
think that C and C++ replaced Fortran, but that is not true.
C was<br>
designed to do low-level programming for tasks like writing
operating<br>
systems, and C++ is just an extension of the C language to
support<br>
Object-Oriented Programming. Both C and C++ are lower-level
and more<br>
general purpose than Fortran.<br>
<br>
Fortran is a domain-specific language, meaning it was meant
for a<br>
special purpose, which in this case is doing mathematical
operations,<br>
and it's very good for those sorts of things. It's trivial
to create<br>
multidimensional arrays in Fortran, which is useful for many
math<br>
operations, but C doesn't even support anything beyond 1D
arrays. Sure<br>
you can mimic multidimensional arrays by keeping track of
stride length,<br>
etc., but that's a lot of work, and I'm betting that's work
a lot of<br>
scientists would rather not do. That's just one example of
Fortran being<br>
friendlier for science. I'm sure there are other examples,
but I'm not a<br>
programmer, and definitely NOT a Fortran programmer.<br>
<br>
I think the main reason most people look at Fortran as an
old and<br>
outdated language is because it stuck to the "punch card"
formatting<br>
long after punch cards and punch card readers disappeared,
but I'm not<br>
sure who to blame for that. Do I blame my freshman
"Programming for<br>
Engineers" instructor who taught me Fortran 77 in 1991, or
do I blame<br>
whoever maintains the Fortran standard for not updating it
before then?<br>
(I honestly don't know what the latest version of Fortran
was in the<br>
fall of 1991).<br>
<br>
Prentice<br>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prentice Bisbal
Lead Software Engineer
Research Computing
Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.pppl.gov">http://www.pppl.gov</a></pre>
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