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<p>On 08/20/2016 10:03 AM, Stu Midgley wrote:<br>
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</span> I don't need to try to do that, because that's
the job of the engineers at Asetek, CoolIT and their OEM
partners. I've looked at their solutions every year
they've been as SC, and the packaging is quite neat, and
included heat exchangers for the RAM to keep it cool,
too. I sure as hell wouldn't want to engineer and build
the system myself, but I'm sure glad there are others
doing it, and I have a lot of confidence in their work.
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<div>Spoken like someone who doesn't have to take
responsibility or pay for their solution. I work in the
private sector and have to satisfy customers. If a
solution doesn't work, or has continual problems or is
delivered late, I have to answer for that and our company
suffers.</div>
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Spoken like someone who would rather attack their opponent in a
debate than stick to the issues of the debate. As I stated earlier,
I have a degree in an engineering discpline that I think makes me
more than qualified to evaluate the design of these different
systems, and choose the best one. I don't know about where you work,
but I've never been in a job where employees aren't held responsible
for their decisions at work and aren't at risk for losing their job
if they make a bad decision. In fact, New Jersey, where I work, is
known as an 'at-will' state. This mean I can quit without reason,
and my employer can fire me without reason. If that isn't enough
reason to make good business decisions, I don't know what is. <br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Now my criticisms,
which apply to mineral oil immersive cooling only: <br>
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* The stuff is messy. I can't imagine removing
components from a server without them slipping out of my
hands. I can't even imagine getting one from the tank to
a workbench without getting oil everywhere. I'm sure you
can clean it off with a lot of electronic parts cleaner,
but how good for the environment is that? I see this
stuff gaining more market share when we get to
'disposable' servers with ARM-based SoCs, so cleanup
isn't even an issue. <br>
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<div>I work with the stuff as do our local SGI engineers and
it isn't that big a deal.</div>
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* Liquids are dense! Immersive cooling in mineral oil
adds a lot to the load of the data centers raised floor.
Yes the tanks are about the size of a rack flipped on
it's side, but even the densest servers are still mostly
air by volume. I imagine many data centers would need to
upgrade their floors before going to this type of
cooling. <br>
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<div>Wrong. Prior to immersive cooling, we were running SGI
chilled water racks. A 40RU tank with nodes comes in at
about 1600kg's... an SGI chilled water rack with nodes
comes in at about 1400kg's. The SGI rack has 1400kg's in
less than 1msq whereas a tank is 1600kg's in just over
msq... it is actually better for your floor.</div>
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I will concede this point. What you say sounds plausible, and I
don't have any numbers to counter with. <br>
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* Since the "racks" are on their sides an only go up
about 3 - 3.5 feet, it's not a very efficient use of
space. We often talk about data center space in square
footage, but it's *volume* that really matters, and I
don't think mineral oil cooling is very space efficient.
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<div>Wrong. If you take a rack and the clearances of the
back and front required to service nodes (400mm at the
back 900mm at the front), you take about 2sqm per rack...
which is less than our tanks currently take. We can get
MORE density with an immersive solution than with racks.</div>
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I'm still skeptical. You still need space for people to walk through
the tanks on one side, and cabling on the other side. I can see how
the cabling aisle takes up less space than a hot aisle, but I'm sure
it must still be wide enough for someone to walk through so they can
install/remove/repair cables, unless you do something completely
different in this case and run all the cables in cable trays
directly over the tanks. Is that what you do? <br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> * What if one of
those tanks leaks or a pipe bursts? I'd rather clean up
water or Novec. Yes, there are electrical dangers when
that happens with water, but that's what circuit
breakers and such (GFCI, AFCI, etc.) are for. <br>
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<div>Water is actually worse than these fluids. If you get
a leak, you use a wet-vacuum and suck it up and put it
back into a tank. You don't have to worry about any
electrical components or other mechanical stuff. The
fluids are easy to clean up, wipe down and get on with
life.</div>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> * What happens when
you decommission hardware that's covered in mineral oil?
How do you clean it up? Will a recycling center take
electronics covered in mineral oil.<br>
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<div>When you decommission nodes, you throw them out like
you do with all old hardware. The fluids are non-toxic,
biodegradable, have a clean MSDS and nodes/components can
be disposed of clean or oily.</div>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Dr
Stuart Midgley<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sdm900@sdm900.com"
target="_blank">sdm900@sdm900.com</a></div>
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