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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Without getting into the semantics of clouds, smoke, fog, or mirrors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Isn’t this basically a “remotely accessible shared resource” which happens to be a cluster (defined as something more than a bunch of PCs on the same network:
typically with a high performance interconnect and some “cluster management” software of one sort or another).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In all, a useful concept. The tricky part is how the “chargeback” system works. What we have here at JPL are called “service centers” for things like antenna
ranges, equipment loan pools, clean room services, etc. They charge a “per unit” charge (where the unit depends on the service, be it day of use, month of rental, etc.) that per unit charge is determined at the beginning of the fiscal year by the manager
of the service, based on past history, and is designed to cover all the operating costs of the service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Of course, at the end of the year, if the total cost of operation is different than the total unit charges received, there’s a problem. And, strangely, I’ve
never gotten a rebate from the service center because the TCO was less than they collected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In any case, this kind of strategy is pretty common for “big iron” computers (when you used to lease a machine from IBM, you’d pay by the CPU-second, by the kilocore-second,
etc.)…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It also will pass muster for government contracting, which requires that costs be allowable, accountable, and allocable (i.e. you can’t artificially reduce your
profit by charging yourself exorbitant rates for computing services) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But it depends on having someone with deep enough pockets to absorb the instantaneous differences between revenue and expense (and the political expertise to
handle the problem of “retro rate changes” when the original user has spent all their money)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jim Lux<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Beowulf [mailto:beowulf-bounces@beowulf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Olli-Pekka Lehto<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 11, 2015 11:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Hearns<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Beowulf Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Beowulf] HPC in the cloud question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have a similar service intended especially for colocating the datacenters of Polytechnics and Universities in our datacenter in the north of Finland. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.slideshare.net/PeterJenkins1/csc-modular-datacenter">http://www.slideshare.net/PeterJenkins1/csc-modular-datacenter</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In addition we have been operating an HPC-oriented IaaS-cloud, carved off our production cluster for over a year now (<a href="https://research.csc.fi/cloud-computing">https://research.csc.fi/cloud-computing</a>). One thing that’s under
active development is a virtual cluster toolchain and front-end which could fairly easily be utilized by other sites as well: <a href="https://github.com/CSC-IT-Center-for-Science/pouta-blueprints">https://github.com/CSC-IT-Center-for-Science/pouta-blueprints</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Recently there’s been a growing demand for private cloud for internal projects and even from other public institutions. They present a possibility that the service may evolve to become a more general-purpose cloud platform that
<i>also</i> supports HPC workloads. The marginal cost of this is fairly reasonable as much of the heavy lifting is in the cloud middleware development/integration that needs to be done anyway and adding different types of nodes/flavours is pretty trivial. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This trend presents an interesting prospect for HPC centers in general: I’m willing to bet that in many places around the globe there is a niche for a vendor-independent, non-profit, regional, government-backed cloud service for critical
public-sector workloads. HPC centers are be a good fit for providing this as many are already developing their own cloud services, procure and manage large quantities of scale-out hardware and have typically a very trustworthy reputation (and possibly certifications). <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps in the future the circle will close and we'll see some HPC centers become again providers of mission-critical general-puropse centralized computing resources in addition to HPC. :)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">O-P<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">-- <br>
Olli-Pekka Lehto<br>
Development Manager, Computing Platforms <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">CSC - IT Center for Science Ltd.<br>
E-Mail: <a href="mailto:olli-pekka.lehto@csc.fi">olli-pekka.lehto@csc.fi</a> // Tel: +358 50 381 8604 // skype: oplehto // twitter: @ople<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 10 May 2015, at 21:47, John Hearns <<a href="mailto:hearnsj@googlemail.com">hearnsj@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal">This article might be interesting:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.information-age.com/technology/data-centre-and-it-infrastructure/123459441/inside-uks-first-collaborative-data-centre">http://www.information-age.com/technology/data-centre-and-it-infrastructure/123459441/inside-uks-first-collaborative-data-centre</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As it says 'Data-centre-as-a-service'<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A shared data centre, outside the centre of the city, used by several research inistitutes and universities.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have been involved in preparing bids for equipment there, including the innovative eMedlab project.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Central London has its own problems in getting enough space and power for large computing setups, and this makes a lot of sense.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 8 May 2015 at 20:58, Dimitris Zilaskos <<a href="mailto:dimitrisz@gmail.com" target="_blank">dimitrisz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
IBM Platform does provide IB for HPC with bare metal and cloudbursting, among other HPC services on the cloud. Detailed information including benchmarks can be found at
<a href="http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/platformcomputing/products/cloudservice/" target="_blank">
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/platformcomputing/products/cloudservice/</a> . Note that I work for IBM so I am obviously biased.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dimitris<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Prentice Bisbal <<a href="mailto:prentice.bisbal@rutgers.edu" target="_blank">prentice.bisbal@rutgers.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike,<br>
<br>
What are the characteristics of your cluster workloads? Are they tightly coupled jobs, or are they embarassingly parallel or serial jobs? I find it hard to believe that a virtualized, ethernet shared network infrastructure can compete with FDR IB for performance
on tightly coupled jobs. AWS HPC representatives came to my school to give a presentation on their offerings, and even they admitted as much.<br>
<br>
If your workloads are communication intensive, I'd think harder about using the cloud, or find a cloud provider that provides IB for HPC (there are a few that do, but I can't remember their names). If your workloads are loosely-coupled jobs or many serial
jobs, AWS or similar might be fine. AWS does not provide IB, and in fact shares very little information about their network architecture, making it had to compare to other offerings without actually running benchmarks.<br>
<br>
If your users primarily interact with the cluster through command-line logins, using the cloud shouldn't be noticeably different the hostname(s) they have to SSH to will be different, and moving data in an out might be different, but compiling and submitting
jobs should be the same if you make the same tools available in the cloud that you have on your local clusters.<span style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
Prentice</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/07/2015 06:28 PM, Hutcheson, Mike wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on refreshing the centralized HPC cluster resources<br>
that our university researchers use. I have been asked by our<br>
administration to look into HPC in the cloud offerings as a possibility to<br>
purchasing or running a cluster on-site.<br>
<br>
We currently run a 173-node, CentOS-based cluster with ~120TB (soon to<br>
increase to 300+TB) in our datacenter. Itıs a standard cluster<br>
configuration: IB network, distributed file system (BeeGFS. I really<br>
like it), Torque/Maui batch. Our users run a varied workload, from<br>
fine-grained, MPI-based parallel aps scaling to 100s of cores to<br>
coarse-grained, high-throughput jobs (Weıre a CMS Tier-3 site) with high<br>
I/O requirements.<br>
<br>
Whatever we transition to, whether it be a new in-house cluster or<br>
something ³out there², I want to minimize the amount of change or learning<br>
curve our users would have to experience. They should be able to focus on<br>
their research and not have to spend a lot of their time learning a new<br>
system or trying to spin one up each time they have a job to run.<br>
<br>
If you have worked with HPC in the cloud, either as an admin and/or<br>
someone who has used cloud resources for research computing purposes, I<br>
would appreciate learning your experience.<br>
<br>
Even if you havenıt used the cloud for HPC computing, please feel free to<br>
share your thoughts or concerns on the matter.<br>
<br>
Sort of along those same lines, what are your thoughts about leasing a<br>
cluster and running it on-site?<br>
<br>
Thanks for your time,<br>
<br>
Mike Hutcheson<br>
Assistant Director of Academic and Research Computing Services<br>
Baylor University<br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit <a href="http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf" target="_blank">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Beowulf mailing list, <a href="mailto:Beowulf@beowulf.org">Beowulf@beowulf.org</a> sponsored by Penguin Computing<br>
To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit <a href="http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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