[Beowulf] HP Moonshot also with AMD Kyoto

Ellis H. Wilson III ellis at cse.psu.edu
Sun Apr 14 07:31:05 PDT 2013


I wanted to add my data point to this discussion as I find it very 
interesting, but I want to simultaneously stress how important it is (to 
me at least) that we keep this civil.  Both of you guys add a lot to 
this list and it would be a great loss to have one or both of you drop 
in activity because of a battle over ideology in reposts.  Comments in-line:

On 04/13/2013 11:22 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:14:19AM -0400, Joe Landman wrote:
>>> I can tell you that the number of hits on the article
>>> will definitely not diminish by me posting them.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> You seem to think that I'm stealing the eyeballs from
>>> the authors. I'm not sure this is correct, unless
>>> there is empirical evidence for it.
>>
>> No Eugen, you are stealing revenue from them by *reducing* the number of
>> people that will hit their site, diminishing their possible advertising
>
> No, I'm *increasing* the number of people who will hit their site by
> posting the article. In some cases that will be thousands or ten
> thousands of additional hits.

I think this is strongly dependent upon whether or not the audience of 
the list is already exposed to the media outlet the article is from. 
For instance, if the entire Beowulf list already read the Inquirer 
regularly, this probably would be decreasing their site traffic and 
therefore ads.  However, I will conjecture, without any real evidence 
besides myself, that we don't all read the Inquirer (I had never even 
been to their site before), and therefore reposting of a link and the 
article itself on other lists will increase the aggregate traffic to the 
article compared with not posting it at all.

A somewhat different case could be made for the Register here, as I see 
a larger portion of the list subscribing to that.  Again, this is 
difficult to measure and judge from an individual perspective.  I would 
guess chances favor posts like Eugen's /increasing/ traffic in the 
aggregate.

>> Never mind the bad etiquette in doing so.  You simply do not want to
>> make the very limited media that follow this market, less interested in
>> doing so, as it would be less profitable for them to do so.
>>
>> The correct way to do this is to post a short snip from the article, and
>> then the link.  Anything else amounts to stealing revenue from them, and
>> reproduction of their work without consent (which is a thorny issue here
>> in the US, where the servers and folks whom own the systems, are
>> located).

Comparing posting a snippet to posting the whole article will 
undoubtedly favor the former in terms of aggregate traffic to the site, 
but I highly doubt that doing so is any more or less illegal.  For 
instance, looking at their copyright-licensing page, I see that "No 
parts of any Incisive Media publication or Sites may be reproduced, 
stored in or introduced into any retrieval system, or transmitted, in 
any form or by any means..."  So I think the case that snippets are ok 
but full reproductions are not is a difficult case to make.  Perhaps 
there are laws that preempt this that discuss what percentage of a work 
can be reproduced without it infringing on copyright that I'm not aware of.

On etiquette -- I absolutely abhor advertisements, which is why I use 
AdBlock and FlashBlock on Firefox.  This is a HIGHLY ideological 
conversation though, so I'd prefer to avoid it if possible.  The 
take-away I'm intending to convey is that resting etiquette on one side 
or the other of that debate is itself a tricky thing to do, and likely 
not to result in all parties on this list being happy about it.  My 
perspective is that we should avoid erecting any policies that take a 
side on that issue.  I do see a place for policies that protect the list 
from copyright infringement, however, so perhaps the former perspective 
is a moot point.

Just my 2c,

ellis


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